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Forum :: Other :: BattleShip scenario one.

Page 1 of 4 BattleShip scenario one.
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Nimrod1001 Joined: 04 February 2005 Posts in this thread: 3	Posted on 24 August 2005 6:36 AM I saw the thread Aquarius posted in the other section, and decided that this didn't really fit there, so her it is. The scenario is this. Bismarck and Prince Eugen have just finished demolishing Hood. From around the burning wreckage comes a big ship. The German ships squint through their rangefinders and see :(WWII Battleship of your choice) Can it win? I assume anyone who answers will decide on the Yamato or South Dakota/Iowa, so can brawn or good fire controll win over two good oponents? The ship you choose must have fired a shot in anger and ship fitout will be as it was at the end of WWII, so no 1980's Iowas! Post Reply
Ghauri1003 Joined: 29 June 2005 Posts in this thread: 7	Posted on 28 August 2005 3:38 AM ALthough the Bismarck was a pretty ship, in terms of fighting power I don't believe it was a match for any of its pacific counterparts. The Yamato and Iowa being my comparisons. If either of these ships popped ou tof the smoke their would be 2 kreigsmarine ships on their way to the bottom. South Dakotas and North Caroliners would be a bit more even though and the older Japanese BBs such as Nagoto and the Kongo BC would be to. But I spose the addition of the Prince Eugen might cos an upset with the heavy weights. That said any ship could pop out of the smoke and suffer a crippling hit and head for the bottom. Post Reply
Ghauri1003 Joined: 29 June 2005 Posts in this thread: 7	Posted on 30 August 2005 6:03 AM LOL.... I think this is right thread nimrod. I would have to agree that Prinz Eugen is the wild. Bismarck would draw the fire from another foe leaving the Prinz Eugen to take out the upper works. I also read a final account of the Bismarck again and it refreshed my mind as to how much punishment she took. She was pummeled from piont blank range by two battleships and it still took a destroyer to torpedoe her and cause her to sink. It really goes to show how lucky that torp hit was on her rudder, and the mind boggles to think what she could have done retaining steering. I personelly think she could have made it to Brest, but once their she would be harassed until something gave. Another what if. Post Reply
Foxtrot1003 Joined: 30 August 2005 Posts in this thread: 2	Posted on 30 August 2005 1:57 PM I think the only ship capable of popping out and even pestering Bismark and Prinz Eugen would have been Yamato. Any other ship would lacked, the firepower to end Bismark quickly, and the armour to survive a duel for long enough to sink Bismark. Even the Iowa's were out gunned by Bismark due to the latters superior rate of fire. Post Reply
Aquarius1001 Joined: 21 August 2005 Posts in this thread: 17	Posted on 31 August 2005 2:58 PM bismark would give an iowa a good fight but one has to remember that iowa did have better armor than even the bismark. and she did have one extra gun than that of bismark and they were a little bigger 16in vs 15in. and i belive that the iowas had better fire control than bismark did. but the Prinz Eugen would be able to fire on the iowa's super structure. unless the iowa hit the bismark good enough to hold her up a bit then iowa clound reload and send a salvo at prinz eugen and do a lot of damage to her if she is hit. maybe to the point of her haveing to retreat or it might even sink her. than the iowa has bismark only to contend with. by then of course bismark has iowa in her sights and fire's at iowa, and hits her but the american damage control is good so the damage is minimized. then iowa fires at bismark again. have to go will be back later to finish sorry!!!! Post Reply
Aquarius1001 Joined: 21 August 2005 Posts in this thread: 17	Posted on 31 August 2005 5:10 PM Ok I’m back well like I was saying Iowa fires back at bismark and does more damage to her. Even though bismark has a slightly thicker armor belt of about 13 1/2 inches to Iowa’s 12.1 it is no match for Iowa’s 16-inch guns and is penetrated. So in this scenario it look's like Iowa has the advantage. Even though this type of encounter is near imposable. But one must realize other factors like weather in the north Atlantic at the time this type of engagement takes place. If it was stormy weather bismark would not fare that well against Iowa because 1). Optical sights are pretty much useless. 2). If the German’s had radar it was inferior to that on the Iowa. 3). I believe Iowa’s 16-inch guns had more range 4). Iowa was faster than bismark so she would set the range the battle would be fought. If it was clear weather and Bismark or Prinz Eugen spotted Iowa first then Iowa would have a hell of a time in that situation. I think that the Iowa would have to 1.) Damage one of the German ships and retreat and wait for an escort 2). Fire on the Prinz Eugen and send her to the bottom and retreat from Bismark but close enough to track her until an escort arrives and then attack her again and do enough damage to take bismark out of action for a wile. 3). Take her chances and attack both German ships and see what she can pull off. 4). Don’t engage the enemy at all. Post Reply
Ghauri1003 Joined: 29 June 2005 Posts in this thread: 7	Posted on 01 September 2005 4:39 AM Nup. Convert Bismarck to a 1943 ship, from a counrty who actually cared about the sea. Cos lets face, Germany could not do anything with the Tirpitz. Bismarck's damage would have to be the best. Have you read about her final moment. She was absolutely pummeled and managed to stay afloat, a very high quality hull. Also, in stormy weather I would put the advantage with the Bismarck as she was designed with the weather conditions of the Atlantic in mind. And how does stormy weather put optics at disadvantage? It actually puts gunnery on the whole at a disadvantage. In 1943, Germany ship radar was alot better than what the Japanese had, in terms of battleship duels it would have to be on par with what the Americans had. Basically the Iowa would be a little more powerful, but it would be a close one on one duel. Add in the Prinz Eugen and you put the odds against a lone Iowa. Really against a lone Iowa. And don't forget, after the first hit that any ship suffers theirs about a 95% chance that the radar will be knocked. Those radar sets were extremely fragile. Post Reply
Aquarius1001 Joined: 21 August 2005 Posts in this thread: 17	Posted on 01 September 2005 4:11 PM i never said biskmark had a poor quality hull. i only said that her armor was inferior to the iowas. even though iowa had a better quailty armor it wasn't by a whole lot. yes bismark was built with nort atlantic weather in mind but so was the iowa american battleships were not designed to operate in one ocean only. and weather does interfier with optical sights it don't make them useless just limited. but the radar should make up for this in the case of the iowa. i can't remember if bismark had radar but if she did then the same is true for her as well. but iowa had superior speed,firepower,armor protection,range to the bismark. Bismark's Range Range Elevation 800 kg (1.764 lb) AP Shell Striking Velocity Angle of Fall Range at 2.2° 5.000 m (5.470 yards) 727 mps 2.385 fps 2.4° Range at 4.9° 10.000 m (10.940 yards) 641 mps 2.103 fps 5.8° Range at 8.1° 15.000 m (16.400 yards) 568 mps 1.864 fps 10.4° Range at 12.1° 20.000 m (21.870 yards) 511 mps 1.677 fps 16.4° Range at 16.8° 25.000 m (27.340 yards) 473 mps 1.552 fps 23.8° Range at 22.4° 30.000 m (32.810 yards) 457 mps 1.499 fps 31.9° Range at 29.1° 35.000 m (38.280 yards) 462 mps 1.516 fps 40.3° Range at 30° 36.520 m (39.589 yards) N/A N/A (max elevation of turret) Iowa class Range/ Turret information "The three turrets are virtually identical, each consisting of an armored gunhouse (turret armor is 17" front, 9.5" sides, 12" aft and 7 1/4" roof) with a rotating structure and a fixed structure. A central column extends down to the turret foundation supporting the turret and shell decks. Turrets I and III have two shell decks and Turret II, being a deck higher, has three. The turret structure is protected by a non-rotating barbette of heavy armor (17.3" on the sides and 11.6" fore and aft). There is a weather seal between the barbette and the gun house but the gun does not rotate on, nor is it supported by the barbette. The rotating weight of the turret, less projectiles, is approximately 1,700 tons. The outside diameter of the roller path is 34 feet, five inches. The maximum training rate is four degrees per second, and the elevation rate is twelve degrees per second. The maximum recoil for the gun is four feet. All turrets have training arcs of three hundred degrees. A minimum crew of 77 men is required for each turret and the rate of fire is two rounds per minute per gun. In 1969, Captain Edward Snyder of the New Jersey was quoted as saying that the AP shell is capable of penetrating up to 32 feet of reinforced concrete. The HC round carries a high-explosive charge of 154 pounds. The maximum rang eis 41,622 yards when fired with the normal propelling charge of 660 pounds, with a muzzle velocity of 2,690 feet per second. Typical armor penetration of the 2,700 pound Mk 7 AP projectile is 14.5 inches of horizontal armor at a range of 42,300 yards (angle of fall is 53.25 degrees and a striking velocity of 1,686 feet per second.) At "point blank" range, with a striking velocity of 2,500 feet per second, the vertical armor penetration is 32.62 inches." so iowa does have longer range than bismark!!! Post Reply

Ghauri1003 Joined: 29 June 2005 Posts in this thread: 7	Posted on 03 September 2005 3:46 AM I am not disputing the fact that Iowa has more range, both cruising and its guns. I just reckon it aint the best battleship. They never saw combat ship v ship, they never had their damage control tested and yet we hear constantly hear that they are the best. The Yamato class proved they could hit their target and take incredible punishment. The amount of damage Bismarck took before sinking is testimony to its high quality hull. It may not have been the most armoured ship but she was built with the highest quality steel around. Remember that the best steel in the world was coming out of Germany, mainly the Ruhr. I believe the Iowa is an excellent ship, and should probaly be put back in service as support ship. But her ability to dispatch other battleships of the world in one on one combat is questionable in my view. Post Reply
Aquarius1001 Joined: 21 August 2005 Posts in this thread: 17	Posted on 03 September 2005 4:59 PM The Iowa has had there damage control tested the uss Missouri was hit by two kamikaze’s in a single day and none of her crew were killed after both hit's so an Iowa class battleship can take a lickin and keep on ticken. And if you think about it a little bit I think getting hit by a plan full of bombs and fuel would be more destructive than a modern cruise missile. But I see were you are coming form they never got the chance to go one on one with another battleship. Post Reply
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