Saturday, November 22, 2008

Forum :: Equipment :: Europe top

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Cobra1004 Joined: 01 November 2005 Posts in this thread: 2	Posted on 01 November 2005 8:48 AM Hello, what country you think that have the most navy?? This is my list: 1º U.K. 2ºSpain 3ºFrance 4ºItaly 5ºNorway Post Reply
Sickle1001 Joined: 06 June 2005 Posts in this thread: 1	Posted on 01 November 2005 1:09 PM I believe that it goes. 1. UK 2. France 3. Italy 4. Germany 5. Spain The main reason France is high is their carrier is alot more capable than either Spain or Italy. Norway really doesnt have one of the top five navies in Europe. I would put Ukarine if they actually deploy their ships once in a while. Germany has a great submarine force and very good designs for frigate size warships. Post Reply
Cobra1004 Joined: 01 November 2005 Posts in this thread: 2	Posted on 02 November 2005 3:35 PM Germany? Germany does not have aircraft carrier, and his frigates are scanty and obsolete. Spain has 6 F-100 (cruises AEGIS) and a cruise AEGIS is mas effective that 10 anti-aircraft frigates, spain is constructing another aircraft carrier, his submarines S-80 are the best not nuclear submarines of the world, his 6 O.H. Perry is modernized recently. Besides, Spain has as helicopter in his frigates the SH-60 III the best antisubmarine helicopter of the world. Post Reply
Hydra1003 Joined: 29 December 2005 Posts in this thread: 1	Posted on 29 December 2005 4:54 AM Spains Navy does not have the number of frigates and submarines like you are saying, most of them are still beeing build. The F 100 frigate was a development between the netherlands, germany and spain, so the F 100 is not that superior and comparable to the german frigates f- 214. An the the german frigates class 212 are everything else but obsolete. By the way the german u 212 are without question the best non nunclear subs in the world, do some research under fuell cells and the new technologies that are build in into theese german submarines. You can forget about any other submarine. Greetings Post Reply
Turkey1004 Joined: 02 February 2006 Posts in this thread: 2	Posted on 03 February 2006 4:51 AM I think that Spain has a very modern and efficient Navy. Anyway speaking only about European country, I think without doubt that up today Spain is the third European country. In 2007 when the second new italian carriers Cavour and his new two cruisers Caio Duilio and Andrea Doria will be operative, I think Spain will be the 4th and Italy the 3rd, but more or less they have the same naval strenght. Post Reply
Quebec1004 Joined: 10 February 2006 Posts in this thread: 3	Posted on 10 February 2006 12:21 PM I would think it is like this: 1st UK , because they actually fund their armed forces with the billions they need, have a great tradition on the technology side of the issue (in my opinion the Challenger 2 MBT is in the top 3 tanks in the world), they also have the seccond best navy in the world, even if the size of the UK navy can not be compared to that of China or Russia and even if the French navy has larger and more cappable aircraft carriers, it also has a very cappable amphibious force UK 3rd Comando Brigade and the ships they need to deploy such a force.As for the airforce it is smaller than that of France or Germany, but I think it is more cappable. The UK is also involved in a lot more campains than any other european country (and by camapain I mean major combat opperations). 2nd France, because it has a powerfull navy (the only other navy in the world besides the US Navy that has a modern nuclear powered aircraft carrier that could be at sea for very long periods of time), a ground force of equaly great strengrh (although I do not belive it would be able to match the german ground forces in direct combat) they have a good tactical doctrine and a equally good organization of forces which puts great emphasis on manover brigades but all of this has not been tested in major combat operations, and an airforce that has a lot of aircraft (most of them are modern Miraje 2000 in the N, D, or latter models, and it is also equiping with the Rafale). 3rd Germany, because they have a great technological advantage over the other european nations (others may argue on this). The main weakness of the german armed forces is the lack of addequate funding. It is the only country in Europe that still places great emphasiss on heavy armored forces (the planned inventory of MBT in 2010 is something like 800 Leopard 2 MBT's all in the A5 or A6 configurations which are at the same level with the best American or UK tanks, and when you compare it to that of the UK 386 MBT and France 400 MBT, it is a lot). On this thing some may argue that the future of warfare is in expeditionary campains and not on the plains of Europe, and a heavy armored force is not well suited for this (that is why the more balanced mix of forces that the UK is now implementing is better). The German navy is small in size, it has always been like this, the technology of their submarine force is the best non-nuclear techonology in the world. The german airforce lack the old Luftwaffe's speed and capability. 4th Italy, mostly because it has a great navy (although Spain also has one of equally great strength and technology), and for the other cathegories of forces they use mostly home made equipment (Ariete MBT, Centauro AFV, Mangusta attack helicopters etc). 5th Holland (Netherland), because although it has a small armed force its equipment is of the very best kind. The navy is powerfull (its mission is to guard the northern flank of NATO among others, so it is well equipped whith some of the best frigates) and although it does not have an aircraft carrier it does not mean it is not a cappable navy (Spain's aircraft carrier is of very little value). the ground forces have moderns Leo 2 A5/A6 MBT and the airforce also has modern equipment F-16, AH-64 D Longbow. On the minus side it does not have the airlift or sealift capability to depoly these forces. So if I have to give a quotation it would be like this: UK 85 points France 75 points Germany 63 points Italy 60 points Holland 50 points - where 100 points means what I would give to the US . Post Reply
Quebec1004 Joined: 10 February 2006 Posts in this thread: 3	Posted on 10 February 2006 12:29 PM I would think it is like this: 1st UK , because they actually fund their armed forces with the billions they need, have a great tradition on the technology side of the issue (in my opinion the Challenger 2 MBT is in the top 3 tanks in the world), they also have the seccond best navy in the world, even if the size of the UK navy can not be compared to that of China or Russia and even if the French navy has larger and more cappable aircraft carriers, it also has a very cappable amphibious force UK 3rd Comando Brigade and the ships they need to deploy such a force.As for the airforce it is smaller than that of France or Germany, but I think it is more cappable. The UK is also involved in a lot more campains than any other european country (and by camapain I mean major combat opperations). 2nd France, because it has a powerfull navy (the only other navy in the world besides the US Navy that has a modern nuclear powered aircraft carrier that could be at sea for very long periods of time), a ground force of equaly great strengrh (although I do not belive it would be able to match the german ground forces in direct combat) they have a good tactical doctrine and a equally good organization of forces which puts great emphasis on manover brigades but all of this has not been tested in major combat operations, and an airforce that has a lot of aircraft (most of them are modern Miraje 2000 in the N, D, or latter models, and it is also equiping with the Rafale). 3rd Germany, because they have a great technological advantage over the other european nations (others may argue on this). The main weakness of the german armed forces is the lack of addequate funding. It is the only country in Europe that still places great emphasiss on heavy armored forces (the planned inventory of MBT in 2010 is something like 800 Leopard 2 MBT's all in the A5 or A6 configurations which are at the same level with the best American or UK tanks, and when you compare it to that of the UK 386 MBT and France 400 MBT, it is a lot). On this thing some may argue that the future of warfare is in expeditionary campains and not on the plains of Europe, and a heavy armored force is not well suited for this (that is why the more balanced mix of forces that the UK is now implementing is better). The German navy is small in size, it has always been like this, the technology of their submarine force is the best non-nuclear techonology in the world. The german airforce lack the old Luftwaffe's speed and capability. 4th Italy, mostly because it has a great navy (although Spain also has one of equally great strength and technology), and for the other cathegories of forces they use mostly home made equipment (Ariete MBT, Centauro AFV, Mangusta attack helicopters etc). 5th Holland (Netherland), because although it has a small armed force its equipment is of the very best kind. The navy is powerfull (its mission is to guard the northern flank of NATO among others, so it is well equipped whith some of the best frigates) and although it does not have an aircraft carrier it does not mean it is not a cappable navy (Spain's aircraft carrier is of very little value). the ground forces have moderns Leo 2 A5/A6 MBT and the airforce also has modern equipment F-16, AH-64 D Longbow. On the minus side it does not have the airlift or sealift capability to depoly these forces. So if I have to give a quotation it would be like this: UK 85 points France 75 points Germany 63 points Italy 60 points Holland 50 points - where 100 points means what I would give to the US . Post Reply
Turkey1004 Joined: 02 February 2006 Posts in this thread: 2	Posted on 13 February 2006 5:09 AM The tread was about navy, and I do not agree that Germany has a better navy than Italy or Spain. If you are speaking about all armied forces I agree with you for the first 4 positions but not for Holland. I think Spain is before Holland. Last I think that the gap between US and your second UK is bigger than a 15%. I would say US gets 100 and the second that could be UK or France will gets 30. Post Reply

Quebec1004 Joined: 10 February 2006 Posts in this thread: 3	Posted on 13 February 2006 1:16 PM Yes, I agree with you abot the navy if you speak of the size of the navy and maybe even some technology. But the points I gave to each country is based on let's say a carrier batle group or naval group (let's say 15 ships) from the US chalenging a carrier battle group or naval group of equivalent size from the other countries. That is how I gave the points, and when you take into account the size of the naval force from each country than the points you gave are more rerasonable. Anyway the armed forces of a nation are not measured only by the power of their navy. Post Reply
Libra1003 Joined: 01 April 2006 Posts in this thread: 1	Posted on 01 April 2006 5:14 PM I am not european but I will give it a shot. 1. UK 2. France 3. Germany 4. Italy 5. Spain 6. Greece 7. Netherlands Post Reply
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